Karbala

Ask a Shia

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Bismillah

Assalamu alaikum

First Karbala, welcome to the board.

I have a question of more a personal approach.

You said

I do not claim to be qualified to identify the beliefs of the Ahl al-Sunnah.
in an earlier input. Some inputs later you gave us the news that you have changed your belief to Shia from al-Sunnah.

What I wonder is, how come that you changed direction if you were not that knowledgable of the belief you had earlier?

I am curious, since it sounds strange to me to leave something that one does not fully understand yet. So how come you did change belief/direction?

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Hmm sorry...But why are there separations among muslims such as Shia, Sunni etc.?

I really like to know...forgive me for my lack of knowledge...

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:bismillah:

But I see every year at the new year time the Shia people have some kind of festival where they feel sorry about killing the Prophets grandsons and they hit themselves in the head and face alot until they are all bloody.

I think you are referring to the mourning ceremonies or maatam held at various occasions most famously on the 1st 10 days of Muharram. The Shia commemorate the death of Hussain ibn Ali who was killed brutally alongside his family and closest companions on the plains of Karbala on the orders of Yazeed ibn Muawiya. It DEFINITELY wasn't the Shia who killed Hussain.

Afterwards a revolution led by a woman Zainab bint Ali shook the world and gave us the greatest historical epic. For me it has a place very close to my heart.

The most common practice is the symbolic tapping of the chest which is a sign of mourning. There are large commemorative gatherings in which his memories are evoked, eulogies read and processions march. There are many reasons for this. Obviously it is only natural to mourn such a tragic event. There are also examples from the life of the Prophet of Mercy :saws2: and his holy Ahlulbayt where Hussain and other martyrs where remembered in Mourning ceremonies.

THe more extreme versions include Tatbeer/Qamazani and Zanjeer which is basically self-flaggelation. Personally I hate these practices since they are savage, brutal and most certainly innovated. As far as the Grand Ulema are concerned there is at least one who recommends these acts (although I totally disagree with him) as Mustahabb. Most of them abhorr it especially since it is so bad for the image of Islam.

For example it is banned in Iran as per the Fatwa of Ayatollah Khamenei.

Question: Is hitting oneself with swords ḥalāl if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwā in this regard universal?

Answer: Qamazanī is not held by common view as manifestations of mourning and grief, it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that, and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support to this act. Moreover, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, it is not permissible in any situation.

taken from the rahbar's site (www.leader.ir)

Edited by Karbala

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Also, I wanted to ask if it is common among the shia people to practice the pleasure marriage?

I think what you are referring to is Muta'a. From personal experience it is quite uncommon. But it is unanimously regarded in the school of AhlulBayt to be Halal.

I am curious, since it sounds strange to me to leave something that one does not fully understand yet. So how come you did change belief/direction

Good Question and it is a long story how I went from The School of Ahl AL-Sunnah to School of AhlulBayt. But the question is why did I if I didnt know much about the beliefs of Ahl Al-Sunnah.

To be fair Im not qualified to identify the beliefs of the Shia either. In the School of AhlulBayt there is a strong culture of Taqleed (emulation) in which the common person suspends their judgements on matters of fiqh in preference to certain qualified Ulema. This more or less also applies to Aqeedah. I am very careful when talking of religion. Since this is an islamic board with many capable people to identify the Aqeedah of Ahl AL-Sunnah I thought it would be best if I left it to them. It would be a bit strange if I a practicing Shia was teaching you about your own beliefs. I could quote you books and references from Ahl-Al-sunnah Ulema but Ahl al-Sunnah beliefs are better coming from Sunnis themselves.

I have studied literature available to me in English and Urdu on both schools to the best of my ability. I have had discussions with Sunni as well as Shia Ulema. Believe me it wasn't easy I did the best I can to make a decision with the evidence infront of me.

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Bismillah

as salam alykom brothers and sisters

Alhamdulelah I just came back from Ummrah, and Karbala I have a lot to say here. BUt since I also have a lot to catch up with, will just give a quick comment on something to let everyone knows why Iranians pray after Fajr and After Asr..

As u may have noticed, it did bother me to see us Muslims go like this, so in Medina I tried to talk to one of the ladies in charge, she told me this is their belief, we respect them. We do have Farsi speaking ladies who look after women's attitude during Zyarah, but we dont have much to also assign them in the masjed to give proper direction. Any way, I saw a group of 3, I approached them and they spoke little English. I asked them for the reason, they told me, they pray on behalf of those who cannt come to Medina, or those who are dead. They also explained that they dont do this back home, but because they have limited time, they want to invest as much as possible. Alhamdulelah I explained nicely that this is Haram, they can pray as much as possible any other time. They answered no one told us it is Haram and we will not do it.

I also wrote a comment asking the authorities to try and give them dawa, that we shouldnt stereotype as this is their belief. When we explain the wrong, they listen, that we should approach them as Muslim who are doing something wrong. Just as many others do.

Alhamdulelah at least I did my best.

So this is the case. Karbala, not all of them pray on their own, but still I did observe a number of them this year who did so. May be it is a personal approach, may be even they are told not to, but they do it, just like many others who for instance keep touching gates of Ka`ba or gates of Masjed Nabawy, or even here in Egypt go and pray and touch Maqam of Hussain, Sayeda Zaynab ..etc. In some cases, scholars are free of responsibility, this I understand.

Alhamdulelah, will come back Insh a Allah. :)

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:bismillah:

Mashallah may God accept your Umrah and I hope you had a good time.

Ok I think I understand what you saw now. Yes many Shia after they have prayed their sunnah and wajib Salaat will start offering extra Salats. These may be Qada' Salaats either for themselves or a deceased parent. These also may be Nawafil Salats offered for someone who themselves couldn't make it to Umra or Hajj.

This is NOT haram as far as I know since I have done it myself. Muslimah can you provide a fatwa of one of your ulema or a hadith in which after Fajr Zzuhr or Maghrib praying any sort of Salat is haram? Also I observed in Mecca that Salatul Janaza was offered straight after Fajr or Zuhr or Asr so I dont think offering Salat for whatever reason after Fajr or Zuhr or Asr can be considered Haram.

As for those who pray on their own I don't know what their problem is.

just like many others who for instance keep touching gates of Ka`ba or gates of Masjed Nabawy, or even here in Egypt go and pray and touch Maqam of Hussain, Sayeda Zaynab ..etc.

Touching the gates of Ka'aba or Masjid Nabawy or Maqam Hussein or Sayyeda Zainab is NOT haram.

Edited by Karbala

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Bismillah

Karbala, touching the gates [b]for what reason[/b]???

To make things clearer. Yes you can do Qada of course, like you can do Qada of each Fard after the original Fard. Salatu Janaza is also allowed at any time. However, nawafel, can wait, u dont need to do nawafel after Faj or Asr as those are the times when Salat us Makrouh.

Let me check the Fatwa you are asking for.

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Bismillah

Alhamdulelah i found the Fatwa Karbala supported by Hadeeth:

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=82709&ln=...%20after%20fajr

This is even better and jazakum Allah khairan for making it easy for me. Because if I wanted to look for the hadeeth myself i would have had to translate them. I cannt do the search in English.

Hope this will clarify what I wanted to say. And I just like to ensure something, my intention is never to attack u or any other Shia, but rahter to help us all muslims become better.

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:bismillah:

Question: Is hitting oneself with swords ḥalāl if it is done in secret? Or is your fatwā in this regard universal?

Answer: Qamazanī is not held by common view as manifestations of mourning and grief, it has no precedent at the lifetime of the Imams (a.s.) and even after that, and we have not received any tradition quoted from the Infallibles (a.s.) about any support to this act. Moreover, this practice would, at the present time, give others a bad image of our school of thought. Therefore, it is not permissible in any situation.

taken from the rahbar's site (www.leader.ir)

Jazakum Allah khairan for posting this, specially coming from a scholar. Thus, we can say, that followers might just be innovating just like among any other groups of people. As usualy shaytan comes in and decorates things making them OO this is in remembrance to Hussain and certainly Sayed Shudaael jannah (leader of the martyrs of Jannah) certainly does not need this. His grandfather (our beloved teacher, leader and Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam) told people who commented that the moon eclipsed for the death of his son Ibraheem, the moon and sun do not eclipse for anyone's death, leave alone him endorsing people mourning every year. Just to point out how shaytan worked hard on this issue, why dont they mourn Shuhadaa Auhud including Hamza? Hamza whom the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam sat next to crying?? I understand that Hussain's murder was committed by so called Muslims. but martyrdom is martyrdom and the loss in Auhud was no less in magnitude and effect.

Let me look for the hadeeth regarding the warning against renewing griefs.

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Bismillah

Alhamdulelah I found a hadeeth inlcuded in a fatwa, I will post the hadeeth here and link to the fatwa since it is actually really crucial. BTW it is based on Ibn Taymeya.

It is reported in al-Saheeh that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “he is not one of us who strikes his cheeks, rends his garments and prays with the prayer of Jaahiliyyah.” And he said: “I have nothing to do with those who strike [their cheeks], shave [their heads] and rend [their garments].” And he said: “If the woman who wails does not repent before she dies, she will be raised up on the Day of Resurrection wearing trousers made of tar and a shirt of scabs.” In al-Musnad, it is reported from Faatimah bint al-Husayn, from her father al-Husayn, that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is no man who suffers a calamity, and when he remembers it, even if it is old, he says ‘Innaa Lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji’oon (Truly, to Allaah we belong and truly, to Him we shall return),’ but Allaah will give a reward equal to the reward He gave him on the day he suffered the calamity.”

http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=4033&ln=eng&txt=grief

This is the link to the full fatwa.

You know what? Karabala I m really grateful to Allah for giving me this chance of talking to u one to one, I was always looking to such a chance. May Allah Allow us all to improve.

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:bismillah:

JazakumAllah Khair sister Muslimah for clarifying the issue about praying nawafil after Fajr and Asr. This is something I never heard about before.

Just to point out how shaytan worked hard on this issue, why dont they mourn Shuhadaa Auhud including Hamza? Hamza whom the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam sat next to crying?? I understand that Hussain's murder ws committed by so called Muslims. but martyrdom is martyrdom and the loss in Auhud was no less in magnitude and effect.

You are right Muslimah. In fact the Shia do mourn for Hamza. If you were to go to a Shia mosque on Shawwal 15th you will see a mourning ceremony held in honour of Sayyiduna Hamza and the martyrs of Ohod. Also if you visited Ohod while you were on Umrah you might have noticed many Shia gather at the grave and recite Ziyarah and mourn.

Ibn Taiymiyyah is a well known hater of Shia. His opinion doesn't count for much as far as I am concerned. Muslimah I am familiar with the Hadiths in Sahih Muslim regarding grieving. In fact here are the exact quotes:

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...im/001.smt.html

Book 001, Number 0186:

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Burda b. Abu Musa that Abu Musa was afflicted with grave pain and he became unconscious and his head was in the lap of a lady of his household. One of the women of his household walled. He (Abu Musa) was unable (because of weakness) to say anything to her. But when he was a bit recovered he said: I have no concern with one with whom the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) has no concern, Verily the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) has no concern with that woman who wails loudly, shaves her hair and tears (her garment in grief).

Book 001, Number 0187:

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Burda that Abu Musa fell unconscious and his wife Umm Abdullah came there and wailed loudly. When he felt relief he said: Don't you know? -and narrated to her: Verily the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I have no concern with one who shaved her hair, lamented loudly and tore (her clothes in grief).

Book 001, Number 0184:

It is narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. Mas'ud that the Holy Prophet observed: He is not one of us (one among the Ummah of Islam) who beat the cheeks or tore the front opening of the shirt or uttered the slogans of (the days of) Jahiliya (ignorance). Ibn Numair and Abu Bakr said (instead of the word" au" (or) it is" wa" [and] the words are) and tore and uttered (the slogans) of Jahiliya without" alif".

The first 2 hadiths Condemn women who Wail Loudly AND shaves her hair AND tears her garment. There is no Shia who does that.

The last Hadith according to Abu Bakr and Ibn Numair is "And tore AND uttered slogans of Jahiliyya without alif" Again I don't think any Shia would do that either.

What the Shia DO is mourn in mourning ceremonies, crying and reciting eulogies. Inshallah in my next post I will examine this further.

Edited by Karbala

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Bismillah

Karbala, touching the gates [b]for what reason[/b]???

Karbala, I really want to know the reason before I go on. This is better for me to ask u clarify rather than making assumptions and start talking myself. From there we can continue talking brother Insh a Allah. I mean what is the aim, purpose or grounds on which one would touch gates of Ka`ba, masjed nabawi or any similar thing.

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Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

The first 2 hadiths Condemn women who Wail Loudly AND shaves her hair AND tears her garment. There is no Shia who does that.

I am sorry, but there are many Shi’a’ women who does that. I’ve seen them during Hajj, you can recoginze them immediately because they dress in black unlike other Muslim women who dress in white during Hajj. The shi’a women used to wail very loud infront of the Prophet Mosque in Madinah, they were even calling upon the dead of AL baqee’ by name (even shi'a men do the same).

Salam

Wael

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:wasalam:

:bismillah:

I am sorry, but there are many Shi’a’ women who does that.

So you saw women who according to the hadith:

1. Wail Loudly

2. Shave their head

3. Tear their garments

4. Shout slogans of Jahiliyya

I have never seen a Shia woman do all 4 of those things. Shia women wear white while they are in Ihram (I know since I have been on Hajj last year). After they are freed of the obligations of Ihram they may wear black if they wish.

Why it wrong for Shia women (and men) to cry in Masjid Nabawy? The calling out to dead people i assume is referring to Tawassul or Shafa'a (intercession), why do you think this is wrong?

I mean what is the aim, purpose or grounds on which one would touch gates of Ka`ba, masjed nabawi or any similar thing.

I personally touched and kissed baab e Jibraeel while I was in Masjid Nabawi. A Saudi Policeman stopped me and searched me. I never understood why?

When Shia kiss anything holy it is just a show of respect or reverence. Is kissing the Quran wrong? Then why would kissing the gates if Ka'aba or Masjid Nabawy be wrong?

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Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

I have never seen a Shia woman do all 4 of those things. Shia women wear white while they are in Ihram (I know since I have been on Hajj last year). After they are freed of the obligations of Ihram they may wear black if they wish.

I did not say that shi’a women were wailing during Ihram, plus Muslim women are free to wear any color during Ihram, this is not the problem. The main issue is that women should not raise their voice loudly anywhere, they should not cry and touch the walls of AL Baqee’ and calling upon the dead for help or for any other reason. The Prophet pbuh never commanded us to do such things and so we should follow his footsteps in everything that he said or did.

Why it wrong for Shia women (and men) to cry in Masjid Nabawy? The calling out to dead people i assume is referring to Tawassul or Shafa'a (intercession), why do you think this is wrong?

Becuse Prophet Muhammad pbuh forbade us to do so, if there was any kind of Tawassul commanded in Islam, then we should have call upon Muhammad pbuh instead of Fatima, Ali, or any other righteous companion (may Allah be pleased with all of them). In fact the Prophet told us not to make out of his grave a place of worship or celebration, that we should only send prayers and blessings upon him. That’s it, but if we need to ask for help, we ask of Allah alone, otherwise you will be falling into the trap of Shirk. may Allah keep us always on His straight path. I advise you to read more about Tawheed to understand clearly what am talking about.

Is kissing the Quran wrong? Then why would kissing the gates if Ka'aba or Masjid Nabawy be wrong?

The Qur'an was not revelead to be kissed my brother, It was sent down to be our guidline in our lives. i dont remember that Prophet Muhammad pbuh kissed the Qur'an ever. The only thing we should kiss or touch is the black stone, simply because our beloved Prophet pbuh did so, if kissing the door of the Ka’ba (or anything else) was necessary or beneficial for our Ummah, the Prophet pbuh would have done it himself.

Salam

Wael.

Edited by wel_mel_2

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:bismillah: :assalam:

Becuse Prophet Muhammad pbuh forbade us to do so, if there was any kind of Tawassul commanded in Islam, then we should have call upon Muhammad pbuh instead of Fatima, Ali, or any other righteous companion (may Allah be pleased with all of them). In fact the Prophet told us not to make out of his grave a place of worship or celebration, that we should only send prayers and blessings upon him. That’s it, but if we need to ask for help, we ask of Allah alone, otherwise you will be falling into the trap of Shirk. may Allah keep us always on His straight path. I advise you to read more about Tawheed to understand clearly what am talking about.

Please show me as to where the Prophet Mohammad (saw) forbade us from Tawassul.

I am surprised you associate Tawassul with Shirk. It is mentioned very clearly in the Quran.

A quick question. Is it Haram to ask a Muttaqi person or Shaikh or someone you love to pray for you? Is this Shirk? Tawassul is similar to this.

Tawassul comes from the Arabic وسل which according to the Hans Wehr Dictionary means to initiate, seek to gain access, beseech, entreat, use as a means.

Shafa'a شفاعة similarly is defined in the Hans Wehr Dictionary as intercession, to mediate, put in a good word, intervene.

It is a concept certainly mentioned in the Quran.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ اتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَابْتَغُواْ إِلَيهِ الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُواْ فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ

5:35 O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper.

ذَا الَّذِي يَشْفَعُ عِنْدَهُ إِلاَّ بِإِذْنِهِ

2:255 Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth?

يَوْمَئِذٍ لَّا تَنفَعُ الشَّفَاعَةُ إِلَّا مَنْ أَذِنَ لَهُ الرَّحْمَنُ وَرَضِيَ لَهُ قَوْلًا

20:109 On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by ((Allah)) Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him.

وَكَم مِّن مَّلَكٍ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ لَا تُغْنِي شَفَاعَتُهُمْ شَيْئًا إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ أَن يَأْذَنَ اللَّهُ لِمَن يَشَاء وَيَرْضَى

53:26 How many-so-ever be the angels in the heavens, their intercession will avail nothing except after Allah has given leave for whom He pleases and that he is acceptable to Him.

يَعْلَمُ مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُمْ وَلَا يَشْفَعُونَ إِلَّا لِمَنِ ارْتَضَى وَهُم مِّنْ خَشْيَتِهِ مُشْفِقُونَ

21:28 He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession except for those who are acceptable, and they stand in awe and reverence of His (Glory).

وَلَا يَمْلِكُ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِهِ الشَّفَاعَةَ إِلَّا مَن شَهِدَ بِالْحَقِّ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ

43:86 And those whom they invoke besides Allah have no power of intercession;- only he who bears witness to the Truth, and they know (him)

Tawassul of the Prophet of Mercy (Saw) is mentioned:

4:64 We sent not an apostle, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

Tawassul of the Prophet Jacob (as)

12:97 They said: "O our father! ask for us forgiveness for our sins, for we were truly at fault."

12:98 He said: "Soon will I ask my Lord for forgiveness for you: for he is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful

Do you still believe Tawassul or Shafa'a is Shirk?

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The main issue is that women should not raise their voice loudly anywhere, they should not cry

Why not?

The Qur'an was not revelead to be kissed my brother, It was sent down to be our guidline in our lives. i dont remember that Prophet Muhammad pbuh kissed the Qur'an ever. The only thing we should kiss or touch is the black stone, simply because our beloved Prophet pbuh did so, if kissing the door of the Ka’ba (or anything else) was necessary or beneficial for our Ummah, the Prophet pbuh would have done it himself.

I agree the Quran was revealed for Guidance. This wasn't my question, my question was, is it wrong? Is it haram? I don't think so.

Kissing the door of Ka'aba or anything else may or may not be beneficial. That isn't the issue. Again the question is it haram? Again I don't think it is.

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Bismillah

THus Insh a Allah I will look for two things, rulings on visiting graves, I dont want to give u what i already know Alhamdulelah regarding the renewal of griefs and warnings against standing long on a grave. And also will try to walk thru rational thinking of whether or not kissing K`aba gates is Halal or not.

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Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

I guess you need to read Tafsir ibn Kathir on the Ayahs that you have provided.

Tafsir.Com

Salam

Wael.

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Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Why not?

Because the Prophet told us that women voice is part of her Awrah, and so she should not shout/cry loudly anywhere.

I agree the Quran was revealed for Guidance. This wasn't my question, my question was, is it wrong? Is it haram? I don't think so.

Kissing the door of Ka'aba or anything else may or may not be beneficial. That isn't the issue. Again the question is it haram? Again I don't think it is.

In my humble opinion it is wrong, because the Prophet Muhammad pbuh never did such thing, and so i follow my prophet pbuh.

Salam

Wael.

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:bismillah:

Because the Prophet told us that women voice is part of her Awrah, and so she should not shout/cry loudly anywhere.

OK can you please provide me with a source?

In my humble opinion it is wrong, because the Prophet Muhammad pbuh never did such thing, and so i follow my prophet pbuh.

That is very bad reasoning. According to this no one should drive a car, own a TV, use the internet or use islamww.com. i have never seen a scholar use this reasoning to declare something haram.

I will read Tafsir ibn Kathir and write another post. It would have been easier if YOU told me why you do not agree with my interpretation of the Ayats of Quran I presented. It seems pretty clear to me the word Shafa'a has been used several times. There are clear examples of Tawassul in the case of Prophet Mohammad (saw) and Prophet Jacob (as).

Maybe you should read Tafsir al-Mizan

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Bismillah

as salam alykom

Alright Karbala, I m usually inclined towards using my mind (or more to say the ability of reasoning Allah Blessed mankind with). Actually mankind was blessed with this advantage which puts mankind on a higher rank than angels since we have also the ability to decide and make choices.

Now to start with, what is the purpose of worship in general?? To obey Allah, to pay gratitude to Allah, to come closer to Allah, to protect us against ourselves and shaytan (since even in the acts or worship and obedience we have to do what pleases Allah not ourselves, i.e if a woman likes to go out and attend Halaqa but she leaves her husband and children unattended, it is a no situation).

Thus, any act of worship reflects back on the worshiper in two or even multi forms. But at least the two evident is being closer to Allah, and feeling better because one is freed from any other influence but Allah's.

In light of the above, one must always gauge the impact of any act according to such criteria. What would I gain, how will I come closer to Allah?

Why do we go to Ka`aba at all? (I will focus first on this issue). Among others, because going for Haj is a must - so long a Muslim is capable - it is a Fard but a conditional one depending on the ability. As for Ummrah it is a Sunnah - following the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him that results into (according to hadeeth) expiation of sins, renewing the covenant with Allah, maintaining the relation with Allah, scrubbing the heart, ..etc. Because praying one Raka`a in Masjed Haram equals 100,000.

What do we do when we go there? We perform the act in way that follows the sunnah in the rituals, to be sticking to sunnah…

Besides each act of worship when u really ponder upon them and reflect, does have a logical meaning and impact on the human being as a person . For example and on the same theme:

Why do we strive to go to Masjed Nabawy and strive even more to attain the honor of praying in Rawda Sharifa? Because the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him said and stated and explained that the space located between his house and his pulpit is considered a Rawda of Jannah (prayer and peace be upon our beloved teacher and leader and Messenger ameen). And also as he explained that praying 1 Raka there equals a 1000 elsewhere. Why do we do our best to visit Masjed Qubaa and pray even two Rakaa because according to a hadeeth the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him told us that praying there two Rakaa one would attain the reward of performing Ummrah.

So how will kissing a modern constructed and renovated gate benefit u? Modern gates of Masjed Nabawy including that of Jebreel or others (built and renovated during the 20th century) - which in itself not more precious in the eyes of Allah than mankind.

Would u for instance kiss the Intercontinental hotel room door just because it is in Mecca? Unlike of course if it was in Sand Fransisco or anywhere else?? It is the same thing. This is a door and that is a door. How will kissing a gate allows you to strengthen your faith? Or allows you to attain Allah’s love as if u perform Nafawel in order to come closer to Allah.

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Would u for instance kiss the Intercontinental hotel room door just because it is in Mecca? Unlike of course if it was in Sand Fransisco or anywhere else?? It is the same thing. This is a door and that is a door. How will kissing a gate allows you to strengthen your faith? Or allows you to attain Allah’s love as if u perform Nafawel in order to come closer to Allah.

Salaams,

I follow and respect your reasoning, but I think you are not distinguishing between "unnecessary" and "haraam." What is haraam about kissing something as a sign of respect? I would agree that it is wrong to make something wajib that is not -- for instance if I were to say "Your hujj is not valid unless you kiss Hajr-e-Aswad." However, to my knowledge no one is doing this (please do correct me if I'm wrong). Since that is the case, what's the problem?

Karbala has made a very important point about following the Prophet's tradition: just because he didn't do something doesn't make it haraam for us. Haraam lies in making the impermissible permissible, and in adding to the din requirements which the Prophet did not himself establish.

wa salaam

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Bismillah

Khairan, if u have noticed, I didnt classify anything haram or makrouh. I m simply trying to use my mind. And u didnt answer the question, that is if u want to answer for Karbala. What is the benefit of kissing anything holy? Even the Quran, to respect Quran, is to learn how to recite properly, to apply in your life, to deeply understand, to work hard on learning it and applying it. A kiss, how does this express respect????????

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Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

That is very bad reasoning. According to this no one should drive a car, own a TV, use the internet or use islamww.com. i have never seen a scholar use this reasoning to declare something haram.

I too did not mention that kissing the Qur’an is haram or halal, this is not my job. I only said that it is wrong in my opinion and I provided my reason, because I wanted to follow my prophet pbuh whose life was not hidden at all, and if he knew that kissing the Qur’an was necessary for the ummah, he would have done it many times so that we can follow his footsteps.

Look at what Omar Ibn el Khattab may Allah be pleased with him said regarding the black stone.

According to Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, book of Hajj, chapter 56, H.No. 675. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, "I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. Had I not seen the Prophet (pbuh) touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you".

So do you think that Omar (RA) ever kissed the door of the Kab’a or the Qur’an?

If TV and internet were invented during the Prophet pbuh, he would surely use them very well to serve his Deen.

What am trying to say brother, that these matters may mislead certain group of people, like how I saw during my Hajj, some people were kissing and touching the gate of a library which was originally the place where Prophet Muhammad was born!! Can you imagine? And so we should avoid these practices and stick to the sunnah of our beloved prophet pbuh.

Salam

Wael.

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