Karbala

Ask a Shia

300 posts in this topic

You've brought narrations and some proofs with the attempt to make some of the beliefs of the shi'a legitamate. But by this you mean falsehood.

I've heard most of these narrations, which seem to have truth on the side but really falsehood is it's goal.

If you doubt my research then counter with evidence. You admit it seems to have truth on its side, if it is really falsehood then prove it!

Here are some statisitics from your last post:

References: 0

Citations: 0

sources: 0

It makes it really hard to verify your claims about us if you dont even provide sources for your information. If you were in University you would have been kicked out for plagurism.

If I can be bothered I might reply to some of your claims. but until you provide accurate references I dont feel obliged.

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1. Was Aisha really the most beloved to The Holy Prophet :saws2: ?

We believe Fatima to be higher in rank and piety.

Then there is another narration which states" Aisha compaired to the rest of the women is like an-tharid(a type of meat) over other types of food" and Allah knows best as to the correctness of the narration I quoted. And fatima is also meritous as the leader of the women in paradise.

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If you doubt my research then counter with evidence. You admit it seems to have truth on its side, if it is really falsehood then prove it!

Here are some statisitics from your last post:

References: 0

Citations: 0

sources: 0

It makes it really hard to verify your claims about us if you dont even provide sources for your information. If you were in University you would have been kicked out for plagurism.

If I can be bothered I might reply to some of your claims. but until you provide accurate references I dont feel obliged.

It's Not our way to go back and forth with the deviants and people of desires as if the text of Qur'an and Sunnah contradict each other, NO they dont so NO I wont go back an forth with you. It is enought that you try to find evidence to make your hertical beliefs correct. The proof is on the claimant. I only need what was persented to refute you and The Statement of the Prophet Muhammad said"Do Not curse My sahaabas" till the end of the narrations.. And it is clear that the deviant festivals of the shi'a where they kill sheep and call it Aisha, and Abu bakr and Umar.(may Allah have mercy on all of them) No jidaal or debate with you. Just presenting the proofs against the group Shi'a.... You're just a blind follower who came later..... Most of you people borrow your kalaam from the greeks and philosephers Thats why Iran is the way it is today. In disaray patering themselves after the Jews. which is the founder of their sect. The Persians! their history is also known... so good day to you. because I dont even give salaams to the shi'a

Edited by abdulwalee

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Just presenting the proofs against the group Shi'a.... You're just a blind follower who came later

What proofs? All ive seen is rambling. This may shock you but I used to be a follower of the School of Ahl Al-Sunnah. Most of my family are Sunnis. i have never had a problem most of my friends are sunnis they welcome me with open arms, I pray in their mosques shoulder to shoulder with them. My flatmates are all sunnis. I am honoured to be a part of an Ummah that includes such gems of Ahl Al-Sunnah Scholars like Ahmad Deedat, Zakir Naik, Hamza Yusuf Imam Abu Musa etc etc.Never in my life have I ever seen anyone say something along the lines of......

I dont even give salaams to the shi'a
. Islam doesnt claim to be sectarian unfortunately its people like us that make it so.

deviant festivals of the shi'a where they kill sheep and call it Aisha, and Abu bakr and Umar.

You are joking right? That sounds more like a barbaric festival. I have never seen ANY SHIA do that and certainly no Ulema would endorse it.

I only need what was persented to refute you

You presented made up stories, fabrications and plain lies. Furthermore you didnt even provide sources for what you say.

The Statement of the Prophet Muhammad said"Do Not curse My sahaabas" till the end of the narrations..

Source, reference? Only once you properly state your evidence can we discuss this?

as if the text of Qur'an and Sunnah contradict each other

They dont but our interpretation may do. Fallible beings quoting what they think is the Prophet's words may also contradict each other.

No jidaal or debate with you

No problem I would have hoped we could discuss this more but if thats the way you feel what more can I do? :wasalam:

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What proofs? All ive seen is rambling. This may shock you but I used to be a follower of the School of Ahl Al-Sunnah. Most of my family are Sunnis. i have never had a problem most of my friends are sunnis they welcome me with open arms, I pray in their mosques shoulder to shoulder with them. My flatmates are all sunnis. I am honoured to be a part of an Ummah that includes such gems of Ahl Al-Sunnah Scholars like Ahmad Deedat, Zakir Naik, Hamza Yusuf Imam Abu Musa etc etc.Never in my life have I ever seen anyone say something along the lines of....... Islam doesnt claim to be sectarian unfortunately its people like us that make it so.

You are joking right? That sounds more like a barbaric festival. I have never seen ANY SHIA do that and certainly no Ulema would endorse it.

You presented made up stories, fabrications and plain lies. Furthermore you didnt even provide sources for what you say.

Source, reference? Only once you properly state your evidence can we discuss this?

They dont but our interpretation may do. Fallible beings quoting what they think is the Prophet's words may also contradict each other.

No problem I would have hoped we could discuss this more but if thats the way you feel what more can I do? :wasalam:

Na'am.. Thanx

Know that there has never been any heresy except from the ignorant rabble who follow anyone who calls out wildly. They bend with every wind that blows, so anyone who is like that has no religion. Allah, the Blessed and Most High, says:

They did not differ until after the knowledge came to them, through envy amongst themselves [1].

Those to whom (the Scripture) was given only differed concerning it after clear proofs had come to them through hatred to one another [2].

They are the evil scholars, those greedy (for this world) and who are the innovators.

[1] Soorah al-Jaathiyah (45): 17

[2] Soorah al-Baqarah (2): 213

Edited by abdulwalee

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The Shia believe that Gabriel is one of the most honoured Archangles of Allah (swt) free from error who executes the exact command of his Lord like all Angels. Gabriel is the one upon whom the revelation of the Quran unto The Prophet of Mercy Muhammad(saw) was entrusted.

2:96 Say: "Whoever is the enemy of Gabriel for surely he revealed it to your heart by Allah's Command, verifying that which is before it, and guidance and good news for the believers

2:97 Whoever is the enemy of Allah and His angels and His apostles and Gabriel and Michael - so surely Allah is the enemy of the unbelievers"

Allama Tabatabai a famous Shia exegete makes the following statements about these verses.

"Gabriel is one of the angels of Allah; he has no authority except to follow and obey the Divine Command - just like Michael and other angels. They are honored servants of Allah; they do not disobey His command, and they do as they are told."

So far as the revelation of the Qur'an is concerned, neither Gabriel has any choice or authority of his own in bringing it down (he is subject to the Divine command, which he faithfully carries out) nor the Apostle of Allah (s.a.w.a.) has any choice or authority of his own in receiving it and conveying it to his ummah; his heart is the receptacle of revelation, on which he has no control at all and which he is bound to convey to his people.

AlMizan by Allama Tabatabai (cited in http://almizan.org/tafseer/Volume2/Baqarah19.asp)

As for the identification of the person this revelation was sent to that is fairly obvious but in the spirit if comprehensiveness.

47:2 But those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, and believe in the (Revelation) sent down to Muhammad - for it is the Truth from their Lord,- He will remove from them their ills and improve their condition.

Another famous Shia exegete Agha Pooya Yazdi commenting on this verse.

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

The repeated reference to the belief in the Holy Prophet excludes the people of the book (Jews and Christians) from "the believers", though they may believe in Allah. because they do not believe in the final revelation (the Quran) revealed to the last messenger of Allah, the Holy Prophet.

commentary by Agha Puya / S.V. Mir Ahmed Ali. (cited in http://al-islam.org/quran/)

Hope this answers your question beyond doubt.

im glad the brother clarified the issue

this is a small sect within the shia sect...the sect with that belief as called Shia Alawi's, whom the transced in line to the Imam Ali as they claim.

they believe in such a disgraceful belief.

Shia's affirm that there is no God except Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.

im not a shia, as myself have what is with and what with against some shia ideology and certain practices.

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khumaini.... is not all Shia, and not all Shia are Khumaini

as much deviance u might find, there are people who are shia and have the right beleif

the same way wth the sunni sect...who we find some sects that are out of the fold of islam, and still call themselves sunni

lets not generalize brother, i have met muslims who are shia and their belief differ non to the sunnis...

not to neglect that there are some with wrong beliefs.

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Shia's affirm that there is no God except Allah and Muhammad is his prophet.

Ahsantum Brother JazakumAllah Khair.

khumaini.... is not all Shia, and not all Shia are Khumaini

Ayatollah Ruhollah Al-Musawi Al-Khumaini (May God have mercy on him) is perhaps one of the most celebrated scholars of the modern era for Shia. His statements can be taken as representative of the School of Ahlulbayt. Im not sure why you are trying to separate him from the Shia maybe its because of some of the things abdulwalee said.

I told him these statements can be found in the Shaytan Khomeini's book: 'Hukmutal Islaamiyah'

There is no book by that name. I think he meant hukoomat al-islamiyah which has a very different meaning. I have read the book and there is very little Aqeedah mentioned in the book. Its a book on governance. Abdulwalee and people like him have a clever way of fooling people. If you notice I provide complete references and in most cases website links for the reader to verify what I have stated. But Abdulwalee as you may have noticed either doesnt provide references or when he does he either lies or deliberately doesnt mention where in the source so he can twist things out of context. I suspect he probably just copies and pastes things from random websites that he finds.

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Bismillah

as salam alykom

Although I dont really have to explain myself, but we really needed to talk face to face to a shia and I think that this dialogue was really fruitful. Jazakum Allah khairan Karbla.

As far as the person say that Allah Is One, Mohamed is the final Messenger and Quran was revealed to him thru Gabriel, you cannt accuse the person of deviance or disbelieve.

Regarding the hadeeth that introduce the type of relations between the Messenger and each and every companion, the three names mentioned here, Abu Bakr, Umar and Ali were not the only names broughtforth in hadeeth explaining how much the Messenger loves each of them. For instance, there was another hadeeth telling the companions that Allah Loves 4 and Commanded the Messenger to love them. He started with Ali, then Abu Dharel Ghafary, Salman Al Farsy

The hadeeth goes as follows:

)

It is classified under the merits of the companions of the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him:

Narrated under the authority of Abi Buraida after his father that the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him said:"Allah Commanded me to love four and He Told me that He loves them. They said: O Messenger of Allah, who are they. He said: Ali is one of them and he repeated this 3 times, Abu Dhar, Salman and Almeqdad" reported in Sunan Ibn Majeh.

If we will examine similar hadeeth about other companions may Allah be pleased with all of them, we will find for example, if we take Abu Bakr, isnt it enough that Allah Commanded the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him to marry his daughter in an indication to further strenghthen the ties between them.?

However, brothers really what matters more for all of us to learn, rather than busing ourselves with who was the closest to the Messenger among them, to learn how did they attain this position? For example isnt it enough that both Abu Bakr and Umar are among the 10 who are promised Jannah?

Other companions who were given excellent descriptions by the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him including Bilal, Zaid Ibn Haritha, Usama Ibn Zaid. What about Abdur Rahman Ibn A`wf, E`krema...etc.

While yes not all the companions were as we perceive. But rather the term companion is given to anyone who lived the time of the Prophet including for instance Maiz who committed Zina.

Now why should we differ among ourselves and turn this into an issue creating a gap among muslims. Whatever their rank is, the most important is what took them to this rank in the Eyes of Allah. The Messenger himself prayer and peace be upon him warned us against comparing among the companions or trying to track and reveal their faults. Because were are sitting here comfortable typing posts and then going to eat an ice creame or chat with our family members, while those Al Awaloun (the pioneers) encountered hardships and trials that we cannt even think of. My opinion is that we should get over those differences, focus on how to improve and hold firmly on the Quran and Sunnah.

Karbala, i have a question, when do you as Shia, pray the Sunnah of Fajr and Asr??

I really appreciate your patience and willingness to explain issues to us.

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Bismillah

as salalm alykom

Karbla, till you get to my previous point mentioned here, let me also ask a question.

Being a Shia, what does this exactly mean? I mean the whole concept of being a shia? where does the term derive from?

Being a shia, to what does this attribute?

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Now why should we differ among ourselves and turn this into an issue creating a gap among muslims.

My opinion is that we should get over those differences, focus on how to improve and hold firmly on the Quran and Sunnah.

May Allah bless you and have mercy on you for you are indeed blessed already with an insight and common sense. I apologise if I went a bit overboard.

Karbala, i have a question, when do you as Shia, pray the Sunnah of Fajr and Asr??

We call Sunnah prayers its equivalent Nafilah prayers. For Fajr I believe it is 2 rak'at to be performed before Fajr prayer sometime between the break of dawn and sunrise. As for Asr 8 Rak'at is performed after Zuhr prayers, before Asr prayer before an indicator shadow reaches 4/7th of its length

(According to the fatwas of Ayatollah Sayyed al-Sistani http://www.najaf.org/english/book/1/index.html)

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Being a Shia, what does this exactly mean? I mean the whole concept of being a shia? where does the term derive from?

Being a shia, to what does this attribute?

Ahsantum.

:bismillah:

Sectarianism is haram in Islam and the word Shia was never meant to be a cause of splitting into sects. Nowadays it is popularly used for Muslims adhering to the school of AhlulBayt.

The word شِيعَتِهِ (Shia) by itself has no positive or negative connotation it simply means "follower" or "member of Group".

In the Quran several types of Shia have been identified eg.

1. Shia of Nuh :asalam:

37:83 Verily among those who followed his Way (شِيعَتِهِ)was Abraham.

2. Shia of Musa :asalam:

28:15 Now the man of his own religion شِيعَتِهِ appealed to him against his foe,

3. Shia who rebel.

19:69 and thereupon We shall, indeed, draw forth from every group (شِيعَةٍ) the ones that had been most determined in their disdainful rebellion against the Most Gracious.

However the Prophet of Mercy :saws2: mentioned a very specific sort of Shia in relation to Ali ibn Abi Talib.

"I swear by the one who controls my life that this man (Ali) and his Shi'a shall secure deliverance on the Day of Resurrection.""

Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti, Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthur, (Cairo) vol. 6, p. 379

Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, Tafsir Jami' al-Bayan, (Cairo) vol. 33, p. 146

Ibn Asakir, Ta'rikh Dimashq, vol. 42, p. 333, p. 371

Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, (Cairo) Ch. 11, section 1, pp 246-247

There are also other similar traditions which mention the Shia of Ali. Hence following the words of the Holy Prophet :saws2: and the example from Quran we sometimes call ourselves Shia and we see no harm in it.

Personally I am very careful regarding this term and do not like to be referred by it. There is a famous incident during the life of Ali ibn Abi Talib some men came to him and called him saying that they were his Shia. Upon seeing them Ali was dissapointed and said his Shia were men who were thin due to abstaining from haram food, had sujood marks on their foreheads and other characteristics. I could never ever claim to be a true Shia of Ali I am simply too weak and sinful.

Hope that answers your question. :)

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Bismillah

May Allah bless you and have mercy on you for you are indeed blessed already with an insight and common sense. I apologise if I went a bit overboard.

We call Sunnah prayers its equivalent Nafilah prayers. For Fajr I believe it is 2 rak'at to be performed before Fajr prayer sometime between the break of dawn and sunrise. As for Asr 8 Rak'at is performed after Zuhr prayers, before Asr prayer before an indicator shadow reaches 4/7th of its length

(According to the fatwas of Ayatollah Sayyed al-Sistani http://www.najaf.org/english/book/1/index.html)

As salam alykom

This is great news, first of all u dont need to apologise, let me try first and continue on this companions issue. i m sure you are aware that Allah mentioned Abu Bakr not in name but indicating that he was the second of two staying in the Ghar. You think Allah Shall Command His messenger prayer and peace be upon him to take this person as a company during Hijra because he is a bad person, u think the person who was given the nick name of assedeeq because he believed whatever the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him said without any hesitation because he didnt deserve it???

Allah Say:

If you help him (Muhammad) not (it does not matter), for Allah did indeed help him when the disbelievers drove him out, the second of two, when they (Muhammad and Abu Bakr) were in the cave, and he said to his companion (Abu Bakr): "Be not sad (or afraid), surely Allah is with us." Then Allah sent down His Sakeenah (calmness, tranquillity, peace, etc.) upon him, and strengthened him with forces (angels) which you saw not, and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowermost, while it was the Word of Allah that became the uppermost, and Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise."" Quran 9:40.

While for instance Allah Honourd Zaid by mentioning him by name in Quran:

So when Zaid had accomplished his desire from her (i.e. divorced her), (Quran 33:37)

Well, if the way you are taught is that both Umar and Abu Bakr did certain things that you as shia are taking it against them till today, in a manner that can be somewhat an extreme. Let us go back and see how did our beloved Messenger, leader and teacher address situations with companions.

Did u hear of Hateb Ibn Baltaà:

To cut a long story short, he is one of those who fought Badr. U sure know what does this mean.

He disclosed a military secret when the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam was planning to open Mecca, he sent a letter with a Quraishi woman alerting them about it. What did the Messenger do when Allah Informed him about it? first he sent to stop the letter from reaching and succeeded in doing so. Then he called Hateb and investigated the matter with him, he didnt judge him without an investigation. He asked Hateb what made u do so?? Hateb said Wallahi I didnt cheat u after advising u, didnt turn to kufr after being a muslim, didnt love the kufar after being a muslim. Just wanted to have some advantage because no one is there to protect my family and my money while all other Muhajereen has people to protect their family and moeny. He continued I was sure that Allah Shall Grant His Messenger victory over them. Umar asked the Messenger's permission to cut his neck, but the Messenger replied didnt he fight Badr, how would u know that Allah pardoned all of the sins of those who fought Badr.

See brother Karbla how did our Messenger handle matters? If the attitude of you as shia towards Umar and Abu Bakr is a result of any teachings of a scholar u sure need to consider. No human being is infallible. They can make mistakes.

Regarding the Sunnah prayer, i m so happy to hear this, the reason I asked is that when I go for Umra, many times I observed Iranian shia pray both Fajr and Asr sunnah after not before. U sure know why we pray it before, because those who worshiped the sun used to pray during that time we are not supposed to pray on.

Imagine I wished that I can speak Farsi, I used to sit next to them and use very simple english, one of the women informed me that their Mullah's teach them to pray sunnah after fajr and asr rather than before. I explained that their beloved Messenger who is more important than the Mullahs taught us other wise. Not sure if u r exposed to similar situations. But this is how some scholars become responsible for faults of Muslims.

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Bismillah

Brother Karbla before coming to u with my comments regarding the word shia, I will check those hadeeth in Arabic. See Alhamdulelah I m a native speaker and like to track things properly before I give u my comment.

May Allah Allow us all to unite rather than divide. We do need this brother dont we???

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talk about taking the words from the Quran and twisting it to fit a whim and a desire

Shia in Arabic means, BAND of people

and being part of a BAND means , following their way

thus the terms Shia used in the verse of the Quran , Karbala was reffering to.

Shia of today have no relation what so ever, with the verses of the Quran mentioned above.

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Bismillah

I understand brother fateh, that is why I told karbla i will verify the hadeeth he posted then come back. I also would like to verify the other hadeeth about the group who came to Ali, if u like to help.

What i m aware of is that a group (Murtadeen) whom actually Ali ordered for them to be burnt, u know this hadeeth, when Ibn Abbass disagreed with his decision. Those were the group who attributed divinity to Ali, am I not correct???

If u like to help on this jazakum Allah khairan. Meanwhile I m looking into the other hadeeth of the shia part... Insh a Allah.

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Bismillah

Karbla, as long as you are sourcing to tafseer, would u help me by giving me the Surah of which the tafseer contained the hadeeth you quote regarding shia of Ali, this will Insh a Allah make my task easier.

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khumaini.... is not all Shia, and not all Shia are Khumaini

as much deviance u might find, there are people who are shia and have the right beleif

the same way wth the sunni sect...who we find some sects that are out of the fold of islam, and still call themselves sunni

lets not generalize brother, i have met muslims who are shia and their belief differ non to the sunnis...

not to neglect that there are some with wrong beliefs.

Who are They? and what is the correct belief?

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there is a lot of Shia that dont approve of him.. they dont necessarily fall into a group

even though there isa great majority who approve of him and take his word.

i personally i am against a lot of what some shias say in the name of their religion

but like i said, i have lived among several shia , who differ in nothing with the sunni's

even some educated ones who know the real deal about the sahaba

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:bismillah:

May Allah Allow us all to unite rather than divide. We do need this brother dont we???

:allahuakbar: My heart fills with joy when I hear words like that. From our point of view we are all muslims and it is our duty to stick together and free our lands. Listen to the speeches of Sayyed Nasrallah do you see any traces of sectarianism? By Allah a Shia can never rest easy while his/her muslims brethren are oppressed in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.

The Supreme leader of Iran Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei declared this year as the year of islamic unity and solidarity. Inshallah i hope the ummah can get over petty differences. One day I pray that you, me and all muslims can pray freely in Al-Quds Ameen.

Alhamdulelah I m a native speaker and like to track things properly before I give u my comment.

:hamdulila:

You have a great gift I hope you dont take it for granted. I started learning Arabic a year ago and it is amazingly hard. I can just about order a taxi or ask the price of food or tell the time.

Imagine I wished that I can speak Farsi, I used to sit next to them and use very simple english, one of the women informed me that their Mullah's teach them to pray sunnah after fajr and asr rather than before. I explained that their beloved Messenger who is more important than the Mullahs taught us other wise. Not sure if u r exposed to similar situations. But this is how some scholars become responsible for faults of Muslims.

That is a bizarre incident and I dont know exactly what happened. I speak some Farsi and know Iranians quite well. Ive been to Iran and met many ulema from Iran. This maybe a one off because Iranians are normally very well informed of fiqh because the majority of Grand Ulema graduate from Qom in Iran. Nevertheless sunnah definitely before Fajr and Asr.

talk about taking the words from the Quran and twisting it to fit a whim and a desire

Shia of today have no relation what so ever, with the verses of the Quran mentioned above.

I never claimed they did. Read my post again. I was explaining the origins of the word Shia and how it is applied. I even specifically mentioned that on its own it has no positive or negative connotation simply means "follower" or "band of people" as you put it. Some people object to these terms saying that they are sectarian and devisive. I was simply saying that the term has been used in relation to such great people like Ibrahim :asalam: and therefore it cannot be wrong to use them. I do not think this is twisting the words of the Quran. If you disagree id like to know why?

Karbla, as long as you are sourcing to tafseer, would u help me by giving me the Surah of which the tafseer contained the hadeeth you quote regarding shia of Ali, this will Insh a Allah make my task easier.

I believe the Ayat was 98:7 (As for) those who believe and do good, surely they are the best of creatures.

I think I have located the hadith in Durr al-Manthur by Suyuti. Here is the link http://www.al-eman.com/IslamLib/viewchp.asp?BID=248&CID=545 (just scroll to the last few sentences of Surah 98).

وأخرج ابن عدي عن ابن عباس قال‏:‏ لما نزلت ‏{‏إن الذين آمنوا وعملوا الصالحات أولئك هم خير البرية‏}‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لعلي‏:‏ هو أنت وشيعتك يوم القيامة راضين مرضيين‏"‏‏.‏

What i m aware of is that a group (Murtadeen) whom actually Ali ordered for them to be burnt, u know this hadeeth, when Ibn Abbass disagreed with his decision. Those were the group who attributed divinity to Ali, am I not correct???

You are correct there was a group known as "Ghulats" or extremists who went to the extreme of ascribing divinity to Ali. These people were punished by being burnt. I can find a reference if you like. These werent the people I was referring to and the Shia (the true Shia Ithn Ashari) most definitely will never ever ever worship Ali :hawla: God save us from such misguidance.

Concerning the Sahaba I will get back to that anopther time in another post Inshallah when I have some time.

Let me know if you need any more help. :wasalam:

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Bismillah

Alright, Alhamdulelah we can resume what has been put on hold for a while.

All is good from Allah.

Karbala first off Alhamdulelah i m not taking the merit and advantage of Allah - being a native Arabic speaker - for granted. Lately I started even realising the major blessing more and more.

Regarding the word Shia as you quoted it in the noble Ayahs, to build on what my brother fateh said, it is used to refer to people who are on the Deen of the other person like the case of Ibraheem who was on the path of Nuh, and the same applies for Mussa. Thus, if u apply this concept to the hadeeth which was mistakenly taken out of context, it is impossible that the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him would be meaning that those who are on the religion of Ali shall enter jannah, but he should rather mean those who are following his religion or more to say Islam according to Quran and Sunnah. Sunnah as a whole. In such case you are attibuting yourself to Ali rather than calling yourself a muslim which is actually grave if u think about it, like Buddihst calling themselves so after Buddha and other groups called after the founders.

Right now I will stop here INsh a Allah will come back for more on that particular hadeeth.

Karbala btw, it was not a single incident that I observed Shia women praying Fajr and Asr sunnah as I explained. Sobhan Allah it was a recurrent observation I had either in medina or mecca for several times. I mean it was a universal practice among them. I didnt want to jump from one point to another. But they also dont pray behind the Imam I mean they dont attach to the line and they dont follow the Imam. But to be precise those are the Iranians.

Karbla what about praying on the Turba Husainyah????? why is it a must that shia carry a small stone made of the dust of Karbala? how far this is essential in perfroming prayer?

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:bismillah:

Right. I think we have all misunderstood the concept of "Shia" as I presented in my post completely.

it is impossible that the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him would be meaning that those who are on the religion of Ali shall enter jannah

Read my post again I never claimed Ali had another religion. The deen of Islam is not monopolised by the followers of Ali or the followers of anyone else it is universal for anyone who says :shahadah:

In such case you are attibuting yourself to Ali rather than calling yourself a muslim

Take the example of Ibrahim :asalam: from the Quran.

Ibrahim is a Muslim.

3:67 Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was "Haneef" and a "Muslim" and he was not of the idolaters.

Does this stop Allah from calling Ibrahim a "Shia" of Nuh :asalam: ?

37:83 Verily among those who followed his Way (Shiatih) was Abraham.

I dont understand why there is a problem in someone calling themselves a "Shia of Ali". The Prophet used the same words himself. Similarly there shouldnt be a problem if someone says they follow "Salf al-Salih" or anything else.

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But they also dont pray behind the Imam I mean they dont attach to the line and they dont follow the Imam. But to be precise those are the Iranians.

Right this is even stranger. I went on Hajj last year and I was with an iranian group. We were given direct orders from the Iranian Foreign office to NOT pray on our own and join in Jama'a. They even refused to let us pray in the Iranian foreign consulate building, instead we had to walk to the nearest masjid. This was a direct command from Ayatollah Khamenei the Supreme Leader in Iran. I really dont know what you saw but it is not my experience for iranians to be like that at all.

Karbla what about praying on the Turba Husainyah????? why is it a must that shia carry a small stone made of the dust of Karbala? how far this is essential in perfroming prayer?

No this is not essential. It is essential that one prays on earth or anything that grows out of it. Hence Shia do not pray on carpets. Instead they carry a turbah to pray on. But one can equally pray on stone, dust, mud, straw, wood etc. This seems to be the Practise of the Prophet of Mercy(Saw) himself.

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 3, Book 33, Number 244:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

"I saw with my own eyes the mark of mud and water on the forehead of the Prophet"

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...ri/033.sbt.html

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 2, Book 22, Number 299:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:

We used to pray with the Prophet in scorching heat, and if someone of us could not put his face on the earth (because of the heat) then he would spread his clothes and prostrate over them.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...ri/022.sbt.html

The Prophet also used to pray on a Khumrah

Sahih Bukhari

Volume 1, Book 8, Number 376:

Narrates 'Abdullah bin Shaddad:

Maimuna said, "Allah's Apostle was praying while I was in my menses, sitting beside him and sometimes his clothes would touch me during his prostration." Maimuna added, "He prayed on a Khumra (a small mat sufficient just for the face and the hands while prostrating during prayers).

This Khumra was made of leaves or palm fibres.

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Asalaamu alikum brother Karbala,

I have been wanting to ask a question too, but I feel really shy asking it. I was actually hoping somebody else might, but I have not seen it addressed yet:

I dont know alot about Shia' customs, and I dont like to take CNN as a source of information. But I see every year at the new year time the Shia people have some kind of festival where they feel sorry about killing the Prophets grandsons and they hit themselves in the head and face alot until they are all bloody.

Could you please explain this ritual and what is the reasoning behind the actions?

Also, I wanted to ask if it is common among the shia people to practice the pleasure marriage?

Jazak Allah khairn brother, Allah hafiz.

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